Why Didn't God Keep His Promise to Me?: A Conversation with Shannon Popkin

Hey everyone, welcome to That's Good Question, a podcast of Peace Church and Resound Media. You can find more great content for the Christian life and church leaders at resoundmedia.cc. That's Good Questions, a place where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language.

I'm John, I serve as a pastor as well as part of this show. You can always submit questions to peacechurch.cc/questions. And today I'm here, as always, with Mitch. And we have special guest Shannon Popkin with us.

Hey, it's so good to be here. Yeah. Shannon is an author and speaker. She's the host of the podcast Live Like It's True, which is part of the Resound Podcast Network.

So we highly, highly, highly recommend that you go listen to that. And she's also come out with a brand new six-week Bible study called Shaped by God's Promises. And we're excited to dive into a little bit of that and talk about that some more today.

Yeah, well I'm so thankful for ReSound Media and the opportunity to collaborate with you guys. So grateful for all that you're doing and just getting the word out about truth and fighting back the darkness.

Amen, that's what it's all about. That's why we love getting to be on a team together, going to events together, having to create resources.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was so fun to have you this summer, you and Stephanie.

Yeah, yeah.

Came to an event and brought, and then being at TGC, handing out coffee mugs, that was awesome.

Yeah, we've been having a blast, yeah.

Looking forward to doing some more of that.

And Speak Up, you're coming to Speak Up.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Are both of you gonna be at Speak Up?

Yeah, probably. Okay, that'll be great.

Yeah, it should be fun. Cool. Well, today we're gonna have a conversation kind of around the question of why didn't God keep his promise to me a Question that people ask from time to time a question that probably all of us feel from one time to another You know whether we feel like we should feel that way or shouldn't feel that way

I think all of us think that at times of why isn't God keeping his promises to me? So we're gonna kind of talk about that question Shannon You have a great book that kind of talks about that question. You want to talk about that for a quick minute?

well, sure, it's a look at the life of Abraham and Sarah and how God entered the scene making these promises to them, but it looks like God wasn't keeping his promises, you know, and so Them grappling with this. How did they respond? You know What did they turn to instead of to God and instead of waiting instead of faith?

At times they responded in faith to God's promises that other times they didn't. But I think, yeah, their story is just a great backdrop to contemplate some of these questions

that we struggle with too.

Yeah, totally. So as we're getting into the topic, can you share just what are some examples, people that you've met or situations that you've been in or thought of, when do people feel this question of why isn't God keeping his promises?

Yeah, I think it's like those times in life where there's this great disappointment. We have this expectation of what we expected would happen, you know, who God was gonna be, how he was gonna, how my story was gonna turn out. And there's a divorce or there's a death or there's infertility or a miscarriage. It's like those, we're grappling with disappointment or, you know, it's taking too long. Yeah. We're waiting on a spouse. We're waiting on a baby.

We're waiting on our country to respond in the way, you know, sometimes it's bigger scenarios in life, all encompassing, whether it's worldwide things, you know, like the pandemic or, or things that just affect us nationally or affect our community. And it just feels like it's taking so long. Where is God? Why is he not doing what he promised? I think it's sometimes where we land.

And so I think the first question that we have to ask is, well, what actually did God promise? And so, you know, we have a Bible that is full of promises from God. It's wonderful. And we, as God's people, we love the promises. But there's a problem when I think we misappropriate the promises and claim, you know, there are some promises made in the Bible that are not for all people living in all different spots on the timeline.

Yeah.

So it's important that we think through that carefully.

Yeah.

What would some of those examples be of promises that we can really misappropriate.

Yeah, well, can I share a funny story first? Yeah, absolutely. I was reading the little notes in my Bible one time, and, you know, the little study notes at the bottom, and I read it said, many will become pregnant without having sexual relations. And I thought, when is that?

I don't remember hearing that prophecy. Well, I looked a little closer and it said, Mary will become pregnant. So I was like, Oh my gosh, I got to wear my glasses. But so like, there's a bad one, you know, maybe like, pull out and hang on your wall or something,

you know? Oh, my goodness. But I had a moment of being disoriented, like, where is that promise?

And I think, you know, Mary had a promise that she would have a baby. Sarah had a promise that God would make of them a great nation. So by implication, she would become pregnant. But I've heard of a woman speaking to a large group of women saying,

claim God's promise to you for a baby. Well, there is a problem when we claim a promise that was given to one person or we turn a principle into a promise? I think that's one that I hear a lot is, you know, train up a child in the way he should go and when he's old, he will not depart. And so then we have these prodigal children and we're claiming the promise, right, that this child will return to the faith. Or and you know, that's a principle. It's not a promise. Or you know, back to like certain people or certain time places on the timeline, God promised specific things to the nation of Israel that, you know, I mean, in a sense, he has promised to us as children of Israel. And yet, you know, there, we have to keep an eye on where, how's the story unfolding. And so, you know, the health and wealth gospel is this claiming God's promises that you'll have, you'll be healthy and you'll be wealthy and that you'll have all of these blessings in the here and now, whereas, yes, you will have all of those blessings as a child of God.

And yet, I think sometimes we get the date wrong, right? We claim things now that belong to the there and then. Right now, we live in this darkness, the brokenness of this world. And it's very appropriate for us to go to God and say, why God, how long, oh Lord.

And yet to claim a promise that my life here now, that all of these promises will be realized, it just sets me up for great hurt and disappointment.

Yeah, I love that when you said we get the date wrong. Yeah, that's exactly it. Sometimes we talk on the show about the already and the not yet. Some of God's promises are just that. There's a sense in which they're already true, and then there's a sense in which they're not yet true. So on the one hand, we are saved from our sin by Jesus, and yet at the same time, we're not yet fully with him in heaven, in the new heavens and the new earth. We don't get to experience the fullness of the blessings of our salvation. And so, yeah, we get the timeline wrong.

It is true that we will be one day healthy. We will have everything we could ever desire, namely God, but that's not yet. That's not this life.

Yeah.

So, yeah, in the back of the Bible study, Shaped by God's Promises, I made lists of God's promises, but I listed them out by here are promises for here and now, and here are promises that are for there and then. And what was interesting to me is looking through all of, and it's not a complete list, but looking through all of the promises for the here and now, we don't really have a lot of tangible promises.

You know, so if you're looking for that verse that tells you the cancer is going to go away or the relationship will be restored or you will have the number of children that you were hoping, there is no verse like for the here and now. But we have lots of tangible promises for the there and then. So I was recently talking to a girl who was in a wheelchair, and this was really hard on her husband. He had lost his faith because she had an accident, she was paralyzed, she was living in a wheelchair. And he's doubting, he's one of those people

saying like, God hasn't kept his promises to us and to our family. And I said, well, let's just think of it this way. What if you got up out of that wheelchair and you were able to, I had asked her, like, what's the thing that you miss most living in a wheelchair? And she's like, I just want to run upstairs. I haven't been able to run upstairs, you know?

And I said, what if you could get up out of that wheelchair and run upstairs a dozen times? Like, would that change your perspective on God? She's like, well, yeah, and I said, well, there is coming a day that the lame will walk the blind will see like there is coming a day where you will get up out of that wheelchair. And so like to judge God prematurely on what you are experiencing in this moment is like you there's great room for you to be disappointed.

But it's also a maligning of who God is, you know, to say that he has not been faithful because you're living in a wheelchair. Well, let's wait until we see the full extension of how God is going to respond to his promises in the there and then and judge in that moment how faithful God has been. Like, let's not prematurely judge that. Yeah, I love how you said that God's promises aren't for every person and every time. I think that's such a helpful thing for us to understand because our perspective can be so narrow sometimes in how we see what it means to be a Christian in just our context. As soon as you get out of America, as soon as you get out of some of these more privileged areas, the idea of what it means to be a Christian can become way more clear. I even like, you know, the idea of, you know, not every promise is for every person in every place. I mean, the promise for a child is not for me and Jon.

You know, like we're men and stuff like that can't happen for us, right? That would be crazy for us to claim that, right? That was an important biology lesson you just gave us. Hey, actually, Mitch, you were talking earlier about a specific verse that we sometimes misuse in this way.

Yeah, I think our favorite verse to misuse and our favorite verse as pastors to come after is probably Jeremiah 29 11, right? That's so easy for us to, I think we see that all over the place. It's on every, you know, it's in Hobby Lobby on every, you know, wall decoration.

I know the plans that I have for you, right? Plans to prosper you and to give you, what is it?

Yeah, to prosper you and not to harm you, not to harm you. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

And what's interesting is the you in that verse is it's more like y'all, you know, I know the plans I have to prosper y'all, right? It's collective. So that's one thing. But it's also this is we're talking about Israel. So as pastors, how do you respond to that?

And when somebody is quoting Jeremiah 29 11.

One of my favorite things to do is I had a professor do this for us in one of our one of our first terminated classes. He had us read Jeremiah 27 through 29. And I remember reading it going, what in the world is this about? Like, I don't understand what we're doing here. And then I got to Jeremiah 29 11.

I started laughing because I realized how out of context we pull it because it is clearly about Israel. It's clearly about God's people, a group of people, and not me, Mitchell, sitting here in Middlethorpe, Michigan. It's so much bigger. And so I always like to ask people, why don't you read the chapters around it and just see if you still see it that way.

Well, and even Abraham and Sarah and their descendants were still, they died in faith, not having had all of the promises realized in their lives. Like Hebrews 11 tells us that, that they died in faith. They were looking forward to the city that has foundations. I love that part that it has foundations, like, because heaven, it talks about having foundations, right?

So they're looking forward to this heavenly city that is different from where they lived. You know, they, they walked a thousand miles. They lived by faith they walked a thousand miles into the unknown and And it was in response to these big grandiose promises from God Genesis 12 God steps into their lives and he says I will I will I will And and they respond to those promises not them making promises to God, but them responding in faith to what God had promised to them.

And they go, they go walking into the unknown. And I mean, if I'm Sarah, I'm thinking, I'm probably going to get pregnant on the way, right? And we're going to get there. It's going to be this big unclaimed territory. That's what I would have been thinking.

And Abram's going to build us a house. We're going to start filling it with babies. This would be great. never having lived in, you know, living in a tent. The only property that they ever owned was her burial site, right?

And so she did not get pregnant on the way. There's this extension. I like to think of God's promises like a set of parentheses, you know, in grammar. You have one parenthesis and you know the second one's coming, right?

And that's how God's promises are. If we have the promise, we know the fulfillment is coming. Yeah, often there is this much wider stretch than we were imagining. And so when we start doubting, right? When we're in between that stretch and we start doubting,

what God wants us to do is to look forward to that fulfillment and to live as though it will come true. And then I think the harm that we do to our own faith when we claim promises that don't belong to us is by, you know, we're putting down parentheses and we're messing with God's accuracy rate of keeping his promises, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

That's so good.

When my kids were in high school, there was this guy they followed, do you know who Blake Harms is? I think I got his name right. He's from Hudsonville, which aren't you from Hudsonville? And he was a meteorologist. Yeah. Yeah. Well, back in high school, he started doing this thing where he would predict how many predict snow days like. Yeah. And he had this like 95 percent accuracy rate. And so they would watch, you know, are we going to have a snow day?

Blake says we're going to have a snow day.

You know, and now he, I think, is a meteorologist. But God has 100 percent accuracy rate. Right. He has 100 percent accuracy rate. If he says this is going to happen, you know that you know that you know it will. And yet, look at what happens when we start saying,

I know the plans I have for you to prosper you. God says I'm going to prosper. And here, I am in debt, and I can't pay off my student loans. What we start doing is detracting from God's faithfulness, you know, his character. And we don't want to do that because that's not only bad for us, because we're supposed to be these people walking by faith, making these huge, taking huge risks in response, like Abraham and Sarah walking a thousand miles. That's who we're supposed to be. And if we're not sure that we're sure that we're sure that the fulfillment is coming, well, that hurts us. But it also, like I said, it misaligns or it maligns God's character.

It detracts from his faithfulness.

Yeah, I feel like we forget some of the harder stories in the Bible, too. I think we think about, you know, the Bible is about me. It's for me. It's these promises that I can claim. You know, you look at, you know, the apostle Stephan who gets stoned to death, right? Was that promise for him that he was going to prosper? And to some sense, yeah, but...

Yeah, he will.

He will prosper.

He died, you know, and then you go, you know, going back to the gospel, like, do you think God's promises to himself, you know, does he keep his promises to himself? Well, you know, his son went to the cross and died. You know, was that, was that prospering? You know, yeah, absolutely.

Yes.

But it doesn't look like.

Yeah, I mean that was anguish that was, you know, terrible, but yeah.

One of the things I think we get wrong is just collapsing the story. You know, look at like if I looked at my Bible, like let's say this is Genesis 3, and then this is the first mention of the gospel, right? Well, the fulfillment of the gospel is not here's Matthew 27. It's like look at that. Yeah You know this represents a lot of thousands of years Right, and we like to collapse that down go from sin to the Savior all in the same

Sentence the same song the same moment, right and we forget all of those thousands of years of waiting And where God did keep his promises. He did fulfill I mean Sarah got to experience just like 25 years of that waiting. But for us, it can feel like an eternity. So I think it's helpful to look at the ways that these people were waiting on God, and it looked as though this could, might never happen. And yet they lived by faith in between, you know, those parentheses, as we do. But, but so two things happen over time. Over time, we see God's faithfulness. You know, we don't learn his faithfulness in a minute. But the other thing is, it changes us in that time frame. When we are walking by faith, believing that this promise will come true, it changes us. Like I mentioned, we take great risks. Our lives have a different focus when we're living focused on God's promises and believing that they'll come true.

So we've talked about getting the subject wrong, right Jeremiah or Jeremiah talking about Israel not us We've talked about the timeline one of the other ones that you brought up that I kind of want to go back to for a minute is the genre so Talking about a proverb versus a there's the promise, right? Would you mind talking a little bit more about that about how we because that the one you brought up is when I hear so Commonly because it's such a heartache for parents right when when your child goes astray from the Lord goes astray from you and your family.

So you might talk a little bit more about how, how is a proverb and a promise, how are those two things different?

Yeah, well, I mean, proverbs are generalities. It's like, these are the truisms of life. They're in general, these are the things that if God has set up his world in a certain way, that if you do this, this will be the outcome. And those are absolutely true. And yet it's different to live by the Proverbs versus to live by the promises. A promise, you know that you know this is going to happen. And so like, for me, I think it's been most helpful in those seasons of life. Like I said, we don't have a lot of promises for the here and now. So then how can I be shaped by God's promises and the waiting when I don't know if my prodigal son is going to come back. I don't know if my daughter who's struggling with her sexuality, which neither of those are true right now in my life, but I don't know if, you know, my husband is going to come back to our family. You know, when those, when I'm grappling with that sort of heartache as a woman, especially when the relationships in my life are strained, well, what do I do? There are, however, you know, I don't have any promises about the outcomes. I do have so many promises, and this is different than a principle in Proverbs. It's a promise that, for instance, God will be with me, that he hears my cries, that he will, I think one of the most important ones for me in the waiting is that I'm forgiven. And I know that maybe doesn't immediately sound like it would bring peace to your heart. But when you're grappling with the hardships of life, I think most often.

I don't know if this is how it is with men, but with women, we're like, did I do it wrong? No, did I cause this? Did I get the formula wrong? I raised them this way, or I invested in my marriage or whatever it was. And so like to know that God sees me as a forgiven daughter and that this is not him punishing me because it's not going the way I hoped. Like, knowing I'm forgiven, it just is such, it's so, to cling to that and to know that, that does shape me.

That gives me a whole different perspective on the things that I'm asking God for.

Yeah. Yeah, along those lines, I think of Romans 8, 1, there's therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Yeah. So, when you think about a parent raising a child, none of us are perfect, so we know that our own imperfection played some kind of role. It doesn't mean it's your fault, it doesn't mean it's our fault that your child went astray, but of course none of us did parenting perfectly. But even in spite of that, we come to the gospel and we hear Romans 8 1 and we realize there is no condemnation. I am forgiven in Christ despite this outcome, regardless of how much or how little role I had to play in the whole thing. That is a truth, that is a promise to hold on us, that we are forgiven. It's an important thing to remember, especially for young families and for married couples.

I've heard so many parents say when their child is acting up, well, that's your kid.

Exactly. Your daughter is...

I feel like I've heard that before. Yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah. I've maybe heard that directed at me.

That's because my kids' naughtiness is very similar to my naughtiness. So I think, you know, you bringing up young parents, I think.

There's sometimes we twist it into like, I'm going to keep my promises to God as I'm raising this family, right? Versus being reminded that he's going to keep his promises to me. We just so often twist that and then when it doesn't go according to my plan, I feel like, oh, I let God down. I didn't keep my promise of being a good wife and mom or a good dad, you know, raising my family in the way that I was supposed to. And yet, like if God's promises hinged on our obedience, I mean, that would be a completely different

story. Yeah. Right. Abraham and Sarah did interject some self-reliance into the story, didn't they, with Hagar? And yet, Galatians tells us very clearly this baby born to Hagar was not the child of promise. This was not the product of faith, of them trusting God to keep his promises. This is the product of self-reliance. And maybe it looked like, for a time, that they were keeping their promise to God, you know? It's so interesting in Genesis 16, you know, Genesis 12, God says, I will, I will, I will.

Genesis 16, Sarah says, perhaps I can. Yeah. Right. So she's turning to self-reliance and for a while they have this baby. And I think it probably looked like they had done their contribution and that this baby was the result of God's promises and, you know, young parents, man, that was me. I was like, I am going to produce this godly family. And I'm going to, you know, like I was, oh my goodness, I so much self reliance. And so much heartache when my kids didn't follow the way that I had set out for them. And so much heartache when they turned and said, you know what, mom, you are the reason that I, you know, that I struggle with my faith in this. Oh my goodness. But that's self reliance for a time looks like me keeping my promises to God and yet God wants us to know that we know that we know that he keeps he's the promise keeper, not us in the in the equation. It's him keeping his promises to us and so that's that's why Hagar's baby was not the child of promise. God wanted them to know that this was something only he could produce in their lives.

Yeah, that's so clearly in line with what our Christian faith is. I was talking with someone who used to be Muslim and they do evangelism to Muslims and one of the things that he brings up is talking about, you know, you can make a good Muslim by brandishing the sword, by, you know, coming down and willing it and, you know, you can teach obedience and you can make a good Muslim that way, but Christianity is the opposite.

You can't. There's no way to do that. It's only by heart change. It's only by God.

Only God can produce a child of Abraham, right? Even Abraham is there could not produce a child of Abraham. Only God could do that.

That story always blows my mind. I recently talked about it in a teaching I did. But, you know, we try to normalize it a little bit. We say well historically that happened sometimes at that time, but it's crazy that you know, Abraham and Sarah are like we can't have a baby. Let's bring in another woman that you're going to go and be with in order to produce a child. I mean, that's a pretty crazy idea.

Yeah, yeah.

Sinful on a few different levels.

Yeah, but I mean this child, I think it's important to tie it to the overarching meta narrative. Like this isn't God just promising a baby to a couple. He's promising the Savior to the world. And so if this is a story of self-reliance, I mean it tempts us into believing that we can keep promises to God, right?

And that is just so common among us, like us taking on the burden of self-reliance or control as, you know, as parents. We're trying to control other people into the faith. And God wants us to know that self-salvation is not possible. And so that's what that extension on the timeline with that shows us is they were to the point where it was laughable to think that they would have a baby. And that's when God's like, yep, you can't, but nothing is impossible with me. And so it's, I think when we have little kids, I've, I've felt like it was really possible for me to, you know, like maybe like a Muslim would think to indoctrinate my child into the faith. It felt like, and I don't think it's wrong. I think we should have that mindset of we're training and we're teaching them the truth. And yet, that's maybe in one hand and then the other is complete and utter reliance on God. I can produce what might look like a godly child, but I cannot produce a true child of God.

Yeah, you can't force someone to become a Christian. Yeah, it just doesn't work that way.

And then back to the idea of promises, like we don't really have, I know this is so hard to grapple with as a parent, but I don't have a promise from God that every one of my kids will follow him. I don't have that promise. There is no formula. But what if there was?

What if I did have that promise that if I do X, Y, and Z, my kids will become Christians? what kind of controlling, self-absorbed, obsessive parent would I become? You know, what angry mom, like, pointing at them, my Bible is, like, you will do this. Like, I mean, that's not who I want to be.

That's not who God wants me to be. He wants me to be someone who's shaped by his promises of what he will do, where he says, I will, I will be faithful, you know? So that's, it's a hard thing, though, to grapple with.

Yeah, before we go any further, we want to let you know about an opportunity that we have with Moody Publishers. But before we even get to that, I want to throw it to Shannon because I think you've got some news about Moody.

Yeah, I'm so excited. I just signed a contract with Moody for my next book. Oh my gosh. So book number six I'm getting to work on with Moody. So thankful, I love Moody Publishers.

Yeah, both Jon and I have been so blessed by Moody Publishers and the content that they've created. If you're looking to dive deeper into your faith and grow in wisdom, discover books that inspire change and transform with Moody Publishers.

From trusted authors to fresh voices, Moody offers resources that equip you for life's journey with Christ. And right now we have an offer for you just for that's a good question listeners. If you use promo code RESOUND40, you'll get 40% off with your next purchase. Whether you're searching for devotional study guides or impactful reads, Moody Publishers has something for everyone. So don't miss out. Visit moodypublishers.com and use promo code RESOUND40 at checkout. Enrich your faith today. It's hard to, you know, teach someone to enjoy love and worship God by being angry at them, you know. It's, you know, such a great way to hurt someone's view of God by doing that.

And I did that, you know. I mean, I'll be the first to say I did that.

As parents, haven't we all? I mean, it's such a hard thing. But when you model how much you enjoy God, that's, I think, such a beautiful thing, not just for children, but for anyone we're around.

And if I can just have my faith is in God, not myself, right? I have this peace and security and joy because I know I can't, but nothing is impossible with Him.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, you shared the story earlier of a couple and the woman had ended up in a wheelchair. So coming back to that couple and thinking about that, so how would you counsel them to try to reshape their thoughts on God's promises? How could you, how would you redirect their vision of God's promises?

Yeah, so that's kind of what I was trying to do as I was talking to her. I said, like, what if you could get up out of that wheelchair? You know, so I think what I had in mind is like, let's picture the there and then.

Like where all of God's promises will come to fruition. And what would it look like to live now the way we'll know with our eyes then, right? Now, faith is not seeing and yet believing. And so I think just imagining and, you know, believing, picturing, I think it's really helpful to picture the new earth, like picture the day where all sickness will be gone and where our bodies will be renewed and where our relationships will be restored and where we will be with God and we will be made new. We'll have no more sinful tendencies. Where you know, like a whole will be made right everything and it's not, you know, it's not the floating in the clouds thing. It's like it's the new earth where we'll get to experience all the things we missed out on here.

Like that's one of our promises is that he will restore what we've missed out on here. And I don't know exactly how that works, you know, with opportunities lost, but we can trust that it's going to be good and it's going to be, we're going to know then when we look back at these long stretches of asking why God, why haven't you kept your promises? We're going to, when we're standing on the new earth and looking back at this life, we will know with all of our hearts that God has been faithful, that he has done everything that he said that he would, that he is a promise-keeping God.

And that we won't have missed anything, right? That we'll have more than we could have ever imagined.

Oh, it's so true, right?

Yeah.

Let me just ask, what would you say? Like, any thoughts that you would add to that as pastors? Someone who's going through something unthinkable, something really hard.

Yeah, I think what you shared is beautiful. I think that's the perspective you want to try to encourage. And in my experience, you know, myself going through some hard stuff, talking with other people who go through some hard stuff, I think we're all sort of ready to hear that at different levels. You know, I think sometimes somebody's just not ready to hear certain parts of that.

So it sort of takes a journey to get there. Tim Keller has an awesome book on suffering that was really helpful to me in the midst of some hard stuff. I'm trying to think of the name of it off the top of my head, but Keller's book on suffering, but he kind of tries to take a few different perspectives at it and just think it through from different lenses. Like you've had, like you've done, you know, what if it, you know, what if you did have it, what would that do to the way you think about, you know, how do you think about it if you, you know, from the end, from eternity, from the new heavens, the new earth, some of those different perspectives. One of the things I've tried to try to capture in my own mind is just the overall timeline of Scripture of creation, fall, redemption, and just remembering that I'm in the broken part, the messed up part in the middle. You know, we got the Garden of Eden in the beginning, it was right, it was perfect, it was good. At the end, when Jesus returns, it'll be right and perfect and good. And it's not an accident that I'm in this broken, messed up part in the middle. This is part of the timeline. This is how the story works, is that we're between Genesis 3 and the end of Revelation, you know?

The world is broken and sinful, and things are not the way they're supposed to be, but someday they will become right. So, I don't know, for me, that's really helpful, just to put myself in the right spot on the timeline and realize where I'm at.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. My husband I went to this restaurant recently and on his birthday and I Asked to use this coupon that they have for half off the entree well It wasn't the right it wasn't his birthday, right and I didn't know how to be on his birthday But what what if like in that interaction? I like started getting out my phone and leaving a Yelp review. Like this is really bad, you know, this restaurant, they don't keep their promises. Well, I just got the date wrong, right? And so I think getting, yeah, finding my place in the overarching meta-narrative, like sometimes I just think we get the date wrong, right? We acclaim these promises and they will come true.

There is a second coming, right? And the first coming- And that's a promise we can, you know, bank, right? Yes, that is one of the biggest promises. He's coming back. But Jesus, you know, he did heal people and he did restore relationships while he was here. And there were like little appetizers for the kingdom. And so we get tastes of it now. And he does sometimes do miraculous things in our lives. But all of the fruition will

will come in that there and then.

Yeah. Would you say that that, maybe even part of getting the date wrong, is how we view Scripture? Yeah.

You know, seeing the Bible maybe as a story about us rather than a story that we get to have the opportunity to be a part of.

Yeah, well, I mean, if you're living in the broken world trying to create the new earth out of the broken pieces, right? That's, I mean, isn't that sort of egocentric? Isn't that sort of like you're the main character in the story and you've only got like 70 years or so to get this story on track, right? But if you can like lose your life, you know, Jesus says you lose your life to gain it in part of this give yourself up to this meta narrative, right?

Where creation, fall, redemption, new creation. Well, then your life has so much more to anticipate, so much. And it's not about you. It's about enjoying him. And you know what? One more thing I just thought of is when we get to the there and then,

we won't need faith anymore. Like that's when we'll have the sight. The only time that we get to walk by faith is now. This is, we only have a few short years to walk by faith and to believe that it's true that God will keep his promises.

Yeah. For me, I feel like that concept right there is really helpful to me to just realize that something is being done that matters during this hard time. That yes, God has a meaning and a purpose for my suffering.

And also one of those meanings and purposes is that I'm being shaped and transformed. My faith is growing, or I think of how James chapter one says it, the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing. So for me, just that word steadfastness has always meant a lot to me that that I just try to remind myself that's what God is doing in the midst of this hard, hard time, that something is being developed in me that matters, that's important, that wouldn't happen any other way. I know that's valuable.

Yeah, that's one of the things I really love about Sarah's story is we see this huge shift in her character in somewhere between Genesis 18 and Genesis 21. 18 is when the visitors come for lunch and they say Sarah will have a son within a year.

And then Genesis 21, she has the baby. Well, but she's laughing in the tent at the idea of having a baby. And then by 21, she has the baby. So what shifts? Well, Hebrews 11, 11 says that by faith, Sarah herself conceived a son, had the power to conceive a son, when she considered him faithful who had promised. And so what changed was her considering.

Like she didn't consider, she thought the promise had already been kept,

you know, by her self-reliance. She saw herself, you know, if you picture those parentheses, she's on the outside looking in, right? She felt like irrelevant to the story, she's worthless. Like having a child at age 89, that's ridiculous.

Well, something changed between her laughing, scoffing in the tent and holding that baby. And what changed was her belief that God would do what he promised. Yeah. She took a huge risk. You know, I mean, can you imagine saying to your husband at age 89, after a lifetime of infertility, want to try for a baby? You know, because God said so, like that took, that was a lot of risk and it took a lot of great faith.

Yeah.

You know, in seasons of hardship, the question that is helpful for me is, you know, what if this doesn't get better? What if this gets worse? Will I still be obedient? Will I still follow? Like, you know, I think a good question to ask yourself before hardship happens is, what

if part of God's plan for me is for him to destroy my life. What if it's for me to lose everything? What if that, in that act, God is most glorified? Would I still be faithful to him? Would I still follow him? Would I still love that kind of God?

And I think that's a really good question to ask yourself. It's a hard one, you know. Would I still be faithful if I lost my whole family if I lost my health if I You know, whatever it is. I think that's a it's a good question to See where our idols are but also to prepare ourselves for when a hardship comes

Yeah, it's not a fun question to think about but well, it's it's sort of like inevitable. Don't you think I mean, yeah

Life is not gonna all it's not like it's not gonna all get built up to this beautiful culmination moment on your deathbed. You don't know it's death, right? So, it's not going in the right direction. And so, but not only contemplating on the front end, but all throughout, right? Am I gonna still be faithful? Am I going to be faithful now?

Am I going to trust that God will be faithful to me in this, even if, right? That's a really good point.

Yeah, it's not a crazy scenario. I mean, that's what happened to our hero, our Savior. That's what happened to Jesus.

Yeah.

I just always like to ask that question. What if it gets worse? Like, are we going to reject the faith? Am I going to just go, yeah, nah, this is too much for me?

And you also said, what if God decides that, you know, I think we like to use the language God allowed this. You know, he allowed this to happen. But the Bible doesn't allow us that, you know, that sort of, you know, softening of it. Joseph, like, look at the story of Joseph, he says God three times, I think it's in Genesis 38, he says, God sent him. That's an active verb, right? He sent him there with good intentions and yet was Joseph gonna be faithful every at every point of the story, you know, he has these it goes up and down the narrative But yeah, I think Joseph had to ask that question Hundreds of times. Yeah, am I going to? Yeah, we've got it very clearly at the end of the story right in Genesis 50

You meant it for evil and God meant it for good. Same word. So the brothers, in the same way that they meant, intended, premeditated and then carried out this plan to put Joseph in a pit and then sell him into slavery.

In the same way, God meant it, he planned it, he executed a plan for Joseph to be sent into slavery, but ultimately for it to be for good.

Yeah, I mean, that's so clear at the cross, right? And I think it's easier to somehow, easier to say that God did that in the case of Jesus. Like, it's almost like the exception, right? Because he had salvation in mind. But like, yeah, we see it. There's a consistency in Joseph's life and in so many others where we have to back up and consider the overarching meta-narrative. And that's where we see, yes, our God is faithful and we can trust him.

Amen. So Shannon, as we are wrapping up, love to ask where people could find their book or if there are any projects that you're working on that you're allowed to share with us.

Oh, sure. If you're working on anything that we should be looking forward to.

from Sarah on Fear and Faith, Genesis 12 through 21. But I also have a free download that you can do of, it's called Praying the Promises, Pray the Promises, where I've kind of like delineated those different lists of promises for the here and now, promises for the there and then, and inviting you to just fill in the blanks with what your situation entails and praying back to God what he has promised to you. So I'd love for you to check those out. And you can find both of those at Shannonpopkin.com. Yeah, and we'll link everything that you just talked about in our show notes. So the free download and where to go to get that.

Yeah, yeah.

And also a series on Sarah at Live Like It's True. So if you're interested in some of the stuff

we talked about.

Yeah, another great podcast at Resound Media.

Yeah, at resoundmedia.cc.

Well, thanks so much, Shannon.

We appreciate it a lot. Yeah, thanks. It's been a great conversation. Thanks everybody for listening. We hope you all have a great week You can always find resound media at resoundmedia.cc or follow like subscribe on social media. Thanks everybody. Have an awesome week!