The 'S' Word in Marriage: Submission from a Christian Viewpoint

Jon

Hey everyone, welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast of Peace Church and a part of Resound Media. You can find more great content for the Christian life and church leaders at resoundmedia.cc. That's a Good Question is a place where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. I'm Jon. I serve as a pastor at Peace Church and I also get to serve as the weekly host of this show. We love to have questions come in at peacechurch.cc/questions. We do receive lots of questions and it can take us a while to do an episode on some of the topics that come in. So if you're hoping for a quick response or have a more personal question, I just want to invite you to include your name and an email. We might be able to have a pastor reach out to you specifically. I also want to encourage you to look back on our podcast app or on resoundmedia.cc at past episodes to see if the question that you're asking has been addressed in the past. One great example is recently we've got lots of questions about Israel, because there's lots going on in the news and in the world over there. Back in October, when a lot of that stuff was getting going, we did two episodes on that. So I just encourage you to look back, take advantage of some of those episodes. But today, I'm here with Ms. Stephanie.

Stephanie

Hello.

Jon

Great to have you here. Stephanie is my wife. She also serves as a leader and a teacher in our women's ministry here at Peace Church, does a great job with that, and so excited to have you on the show again and get to answer some good questions. Thanks for having me back. So this past Sunday at Peace Church we started a sermon series going through Ephesians 5 in three sermons and looking at marriage and what God's Word has to say about marriage. And one of the key words, one of the most countercultural words, I should say, that comes through in this passage of Scripture is that word submission.

Stephanie

You said the S word.

Jon

It is kind of the S word in our world. Not one that people want to hear a lot. I think, I think, you know, the audience gets quiet when they hear that word coming. They go, boy, what's coming next? But it's something that God's Word says, and so we want to dig into it. We're not going to shy away from it. We're going to get after it. And so we've got lots of great questions that came in in the last couple of days about that topic. So we want to address it. We've got a few good questions. We've got a few extra bonus questions at the end, some lightning questions, but let's get into it. So, Producer Mitchell, you got some questions for us?

Mitchell

Yep, here we go. Question number one, what role does a woman have according to the Bible? In addition to submitting to Christ and their husband, what is the role of a woman in marriage? In singleness, what does this look like in a dating relationship?

Question #1: What role does a woman have according to the Bible? In addition to submitting to Christ and their husband, what is the role of a woman in marriage? In singleness, what does this look like in a dating relationship?

Jon

Great question. Stephanie, you want to hit this one first?

Stephanie

Yes, is the woman in the room? Absolutely. So I think let's just take that question if it's okay, piece by piece, because there's a couple of different questions in that first one. So what role does a woman have according to the Bible? I would like to say that I think a woman's goal in the Bible is maybe the same as a man's goal, but the roles are different. So I really actually like the way that they ask this of what role is it? Because I would say in general, all humans, both men and women are called to do the same thing, right? The roles of how they do it are maybe just different. So as a woman, my job, as well as a man, if they're a Christian, is to worship God in their life, giving God glory, and proclaiming God's goodness to all of creation. And so, if that's our goal, God has gifted us with different roles on how to fulfill that. And so, I would say the role of a woman, according to the Bible, would really be, if you're married, as a wife, I am called to both be a helpmate, as well as to submit to my husband.

Jon

Yeah, totally. So, human beings, male and female, have the mission that God gave humanity. Fill the earth with the worship of God, the glory of God, the great commission that Jesus gives in the New Testament to make disciples of Jesus. Yeah, we've both got that. We do it in different ways.

Stephanie

We do, and I think sometimes we skip over the fact that in Genesis 1 and 2, what's emphasized before we talk about the differences is the sameness, right? In the Bible, it says both men and women are created in God's image. And actually, if you even read Genesis 1, Genesis 128, where they're given their command, it says, God bless them. And God said to them, be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it. So he's giving that role, that goal to actually both of them giving the same goal. But then he goes on in chapter two to say, your goal is the same, but your role is different. And this is what your role is going to be. Adam, you're going to be the head. And then it says, I mean, even an Eve was created as a health man. And so right there at the beginning, you see that there is a difference in role.

Jon

Yeah, I like that. So the way that we often talk generally about the roles of men and women, we say we're equal in value and distinct in role or like you're saying, we have an equal overall mission or purpose to our life, but we have a distinct role as a part of that mission. So talk a little bit more about that word helpmate that I heard you use and that comes up early on in the Bible as to the role of a woman.

Stephanie

Yeah, I think if submission is the S word, maybe helpmate is the H word. We can think of helpmate and immediately think of maybe that means inferior or less than because of helpmate. But I think that's the opposite of what the Bible is trying to communicate. You think about in the Bible, it says that God is our helpmate, right? There's multiple verses in Psalms in different places where it talks about God being our helpmate. So I think that right there, you can say, well, helpmate doesn't mean inferior because we would never say that God is inferior to us when he's being his helpmate. So I think that's just right up for a really good distinction of that does not mean inferior. But I think what a helpmate does is I get to use my gifts that God has given me as a wife to pursue maybe how you're leading in our marriage. And so like in our marriage, you and I have different strengths and weaknesses. And God in his goodness has sometimes made some of my weaknesses your strengths and some of your weaknesses my strengths. And so we're able to use those gifts that God has given us in order to glorify him and pursue the goal that he's given us.

Jon

There's some other passages of scripture that come to mind as I think about role of a woman. One is Proverbs 31, right? Gives a pretty good picture of what does a godly woman look like and it's a woman who's wise, who's savvy, who's very active, who is very gifted and uses those gifts in her home, in ministry, in the world, right? So one of the things that I think is important to talk about when we talk about what is the role of a woman, say that God has given women gifts, great gifts, including for ministry. So, you know, in this conversation, sometimes we talk about roles in ministry that are specifically designed for men, but God has given women also gifts for teaching and for leadership, but he's also been clear about where and how those gifts specifically get used in the church.

Stephanie

Yeah, I think a couple years I was privileged to do some teaching on 1st Peter 3, which is one of the passages where we talk about submission in the Bible. And one of the things I was trying to help the women understand of what is submission because I think sometimes there's so much that the world says submission is that does not align with what the Bible says submission is. And so I think if I would define submission, I would say submission is gifted, dignified, willing support of your husband's leadership role in your marriage. So kind of like unpacking those a second. So, like gifted, like what we were just talking about with a helpmate, that you're given certain gifts that you can aid your husband in with that. So, it's gifted. You're not asked to be a doormat or to not speak. You're actually called in the Bible to use what God has given you in order to help your husband make the best decision. Because one of the things as a wife, I realize that I'm asked to submit, but someday, dear husband, you're going to stand before the Lord and be called to give an account. And I'm going to be asked to give an account of how I've helped you in your leadership role of how you've led our family. And so if I would somehow say submission is just not using my gifts, I would do you a great disservice that I think eventually I'd have to answer to the Lord for not using the gifts that he's given me. I think dignified, too, you were just talking about we're equal in dignity, worth and value that we're both made in God's image. And so this is no way is saying that I am a lesser human than you are as somebody who's asked to submit. And then also it has to be willing. Like I can't begrudgingly say I'm going to submit to you. Meanwhile, trying to like pull back. I remember way back when we were dating, there was an illustration where we, you and I were actually like duct taped together and we're told to get to your wall as fast as you can. Do you remember this?

Jon

I don't remember.

Stephanie

It was in a youth group thing. So they duct taped us together and said, okay, now go touch the wall that you're trying to face. And it didn't end well because we both took off in opposite directions and both ended up on the floor. And I think so often that it's my job, if we would have came together to pursue in that moment, the same goal, we could have actually reached our wall. But instead we were just like beelining for what we thought was best for us.

Jon

Wow, that's a pretty good illustration. Nice, I like that. Cool. Yeah, well, and you bring up also, you said very kindly, dear husband, that I will have to stand and give account. Yeah, and you're totally right. So that's another example we get in scripture is that, so in Genesis 2, you know, God gives that word helpmate or helper to Eve as her role. In Genesis 3, we see sort of what that structure plays out like when something goes wrong, which is when disobedience happens, when sin happens in the garden, and God comes looking for somebody to hold accountable, he doesn't come into the garden and cry out, Eve, where are you? He comes to the garden and he says, Adam, where are you? Come give account for you and your marriage or you and your family, even the human race, come give a count because Adam, you are the head, the leader, the person I put as the top-level responsible person. I'm a whole responsible.

Stephanie

Even though Eve ate first.

Jon

Sure, right. Even though Eve eats first, think of later passages in the New Testament, Romans 5 is very clear, it's Adam's sin that ruined the whole world. It's not Eve that we should be mad at, it's Adam. Adam was the responsible party.

Mitchell

Stephanie, you were talking about a little bit while you guys were dating. This question touches at that in singleness and in dating, what does this look like, this structure?

Stephanie

Yeah, I love that they break it down in that too. So I would say singleness, what does it look like? Well, I think singleness, you're still gonna see submission. It's not going to be to your husband because you're not married, but I think both men and women, even when they're single, have authority figures in their life that they're called to submit to. And so in your singleness, you're still able to model godly submission. It's just not going to be to your spouse.

Stephanie

And then I think even in dating and a relationship, I think this is a time where you as a lady get to say, is this man somebody that I'm going to be okay submitting to the rest of my life? At this point, you can ask questions and you can explore, what is this man's character? Do I trust him? You know, these are, this is the time in your life when you're dating that you get to say. Then after you're married, you're saying that I have submitted ultimately to God because it says, you know, in a lot of the verses it said, it says, submit to your husband as to the Lord. So I'm submitting to God's design, which includes submitting to my husband.

Jon

Time for much wisdom and discernment. Can I submit to this guy for the rest of my life? Is he a godly man who wants to lead our family to follow Jesus? And can I joyfully support that leadership?

Stephanie

And if the answer is no, I think you need to end that relationship, because that's the point of dating is to find your spouse. And if you're looking at this guy that you're dating, saying, I could never submit to you, well, then that relationship needs to end, which can be heartbreaking. But heartbreaking, ending a relationship is so much better for you than a lifetime of heartbreak and marriage submitting to somebody that you're going to struggle submitting to.

Mitchell

Let's move on to our second question. Question says this, just to clarify, if my husband has shown to be ungodly and unwise, do I have to submit to him? Do I have to submit to him even when he does things against God's holy word or things that I know that are destructive to our family.

Question #2: Just to clarify, if my husband has shown to be ungodly and unwise, do I have to submit to him? Do I have to submit to him even when he does things against God's holy word or things that I know that are destructive to our family?

Jon

Painful situation to be in, but a great question, and one that scripture specifically addresses.

Stephanie

So I think, yeah, 1 Peter 3, verses 1 and 2 specifically addresses the situation of a Christian wife and whether she needs to submit to her husband who's not a believer. And it says in verse 1, Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives when they see your respectful and pure conduct. And so I just want to say as I'm reading this verse, this is a really sad situation. In the Bible, it talks about if you're a Christian and you're dating an unbeliever that you shouldn't get married, the Bible talks about that because the Bible knows that there's this deep sorrow of if you're married to someone who doesn't have a relationship with Jesus, well, that's central to who you are. And if your spouse doesn't share that, I can only imagine the heartbreak that's in that marriage.

Jon

Yeah, and I think because the person asking the question, I think didn't specify whether their spouse is a believer or not, but it said that they're living in a way that's ungodly and unwise. So, so yeah, if they're an unbeliever, then that's obviously clear. But I think this, this would also very much apply to somebody who might call themselves an unbeliever, but is living in a way that's ungodly and unwise. I think that would still be the case. So I think the answer very clearly, 1 Peter 3, is the answer is yes, Scripture does call a wife to submit to a husband who is ungodly and unwise, but the question is how?

Stephanie

Yeah, well, I think if I can say this lovingly, you know that I love you, Jon, but as a spouse, both you and I struggle with sin, right? And so there are times both you and I are acting ungodly and unwise. And in those moments, I am still asked to submit to you. And you likewise are still instructed to love me when I'm being ungodly and unwise. And so this imperative of scripture isn't based on whether you're a believer or a non-believer. It's based on God's design and what he's told us in the Bible.

Jon

Yeah, oh that's a good point. Yeah, totally. It's not based upon my performance and whether I do it well.

Stephanie

Because so often it's almost like a transaction where you do this and I'll give you this. You love me and I'll respect you and that's not the pattern that we see set forth in Scripture.

Mitchell

Is there a limit to this? The question asker says, do I have to submit to him when he does ungodly things? Maybe the way I read that is, do I submit to him when he asks me to do things that go against God's word?

Jon

Right, and the answer is no. So, and the principle, the way I explain the principle is I would call it the principle of the boss's boss. So, if your immediate boss tells you to do something that you're, the next boss up has said not to do, you got to go with the person with the higher authority. So, you know, so, so yeah, wives are called to submits to their husbands. But if God, who is the next level up, says, no, clearly don't do that, or yes, you're to do this, but you know, if God and your husband disagree, then you got to go with

Stephanie

Can I, I want to push on this just a little bit, because I think we immediately think about this of like the boss's boss philosophy, and you immediately jump to maybe situations that aren't true. So I think I, in talking to other women, this is a really hard conversation to have, so I want you to hear this in love, but I think those situations happen less than what they think we do. They happen less than what we think they do. And so there are times when you can be in a conversation and say, my husband is asking me to do this ungodly thing.

StephanieI kind of want to just say, and can we talk about maybe what some of those situations are or when they would be and when they would not be.

Jon

Sure. So, I mean, obviously a really easy one would be if your husband tells you to murder somebody. Right? God very clearly says, do not murder. So, you are not called to submit to your husband in that moment, you're supposed to submit to God because he tells you not to murder. But obviously that's...

Stephanie

But they're not usually that black and white.

Jon

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Totally. I thought we'd start with an easy one. So, that's a really easy one.

Jon

So, yeah, you got some ideas of some more.

Stephanie

Yeah. So what if a wife really wants to go to Bible study and her husband is saying, nope, it costs a lot of money. There's childcare involved. I don't want you to go to Bible study. Now Bible study is a wonderful thing. You're digging into God's word. You're having a relationship with other women. Is this one of those situations where you can say, nope, God is telling me to go to Bible study. I'm going to not listen to my husband and I'm going to do it anyways. I would say you should not go to Bible study because 1 Peter 3, the heart of that verse is saying you are going to act in a way that your life is going to be so compelling that there's something different about you that he's going to want to figure out what that is and pursue what you're pursuing. Nowhere in the Bible does it say you cannot be a believer if you don't go to Bible study. So I think there's some times when we can be kind of almost legalistic and say, you have to go to Bible study to be a good Christian or to be a believer, that I would kind of push back on that a little bit and say, you love the Lord. You know, the Bible doesn't say you have to have faith in faith in Christ, plus go to Bible study every week. I think we have to be really careful of taking good things that are good for us and elevating them to a level where we're saying, it's so black and white that if I do this, I'm a good Christian. If I don't do this, it's bad. I need to go to Bible study. Otherwise, I'm sinning. I don't think it's that black and white. I remember hearing a story of a situation where the husband was not a believer and the wife was going to church every Sunday, and she was talking to some of her Christian friends and she was saying, what do I do? And they actually encouraged her and said, why don't you on the next couple Sunday mornings stay home from church and to love your husband and do something that would speak his love language to him. So she sat on the couch next to him and watched a football game. And he looked at her and couldn't believe that she was sitting next to him, spending time with him. And through their testimony, it actually came that that was a pivotal moment in their marriage and he actually ended up coming to Christ because of that.

Jon

That's awesome. And that's kind of the goal or the language that 1 Peter 3 is saying, right? That's the point, is that by your demonstration, by your example, wives, you can actually bring your husband to the Lord who's not a believer.

Stephanie

I think one of the things that I would say, okay, so that's maybe a thing where you need to talk and discern. And I think in those moments, you need to seek godly women in your life who can speak into this that can give you perspective that can encourage you. You also need to spend a tremendous amount of time in prayer, just in asking for discernment. Is this something that I should do, even though my husband doesn't want me to do? Or is this something that I should that I should submit to him in and maybe not attend that now? Some of the things that I would say you should definitely not do, kind of on the flip side of this is what if your husband wants, doesn't want kids and he's pressuring you to take a morning-after pill or to get an abortion if you find out you're pregnant? In that moment if he's asking you to do that you would be sinning and you need to not listen to your husband by taking a morning-after pill or having an abortion. Or if...

Jon

Well that gets back more towards the more obvious example that I gave it. I mean, you know, as Christians, we would say that that does constitute murder. So yeah, that's category. Yeah, that's that's a great point.

Stephanie

Or maybe okay. Let me push a little bit more. So so what if as husband and wife your husband wants you to watch pornography before having sex because he wants you to help get in the mood with him and watching that. I think that's another clear like no wife. You are not to submit to him and doing that you need to stand up because pornography is sin and your husband, you need to, that's the boss's boss situation right there, where you would say no.

Jon

One more, I think just for the sake of argument. What if, for example, your kids wanna go on a youth trip? They wanna go on a summer mission trip or something like that, and husband says, no, I don't wanna spend the money that way, I'd rather buy a boat. Do you think you have to submit to that or not?

Stephanie

It's a good thing, right? This is what makes it so hard because the things are good things. Bible study is a good thing. Having your child, your teen, go on a spring break trip is a good thing. But I think in those moments, it's hard. But no, they probably shouldn't go. Even though having a boat is not as important as your child's relationship with the Lord, I think that's one of those situations where, yeah, we submit.

Jon

Yes, you're saying clearly he's making a bad decision. Yeah, it's clear that he is making a poor decision. But but In first peter 3 god is calling wives to Do something radical and crazy in an effort to demonstrate Their holiness their godliness so that he might come to faith in the lord and then you know Hopefully there's some other options too. Hopefully maybe there's a chance to say Well, okay, I get that you don't want to pay for it Maybe we can talk to the church and maybe somebody can help us pay for it. You know, maybe there's some alternatives to get there. Maybe there's some conversations that can happen before you get to that final no, but when it does come to that, yeah.

Mitchell

All right. That was great, guys. Let's jump into the third question. Here it is. My husband and I are Christians, but we would rather have a mutual submission arrangement in our marriage. Is this wrong?

Question #3: My husband and I are Christians, but we would rather have a mutual submission arrangement in our marriage. Is this wrong?

Jon

So, this is an interesting question. I think this is probably a popular question. Mutual submission is a phrase that I hear fairly often from people in our world, even from Christians in the church. So let's talk about that. Mutual submission.

Stephanie

Yeah, I want to know what they mean by this, because from an outside perspective, I could see where if a husband is loving his wife well, and a wife is joyfully submitting to her husband I could see where somebody could from the outside looking at their marriage say they are practicing mutual submission

Jon

Because they're loving each other. They're being humble. They're being considerate. They're trying to you know, well, you know, what do you think? Well, what do you think, you know and trying to decide things together and and be considerate of each other?

Stephanie

Yeah, so from the outside looking in, I could see where that, they're asking that, or maybe that would look that way. But I would say anything that doesn't go with God's design is not good and it's not right and we shouldn't practice it.

Jon

Because well, and I would say just even at a, I'll just be honest, at a basic level, I think mutual submission is actually a nonsensical phrase. I don't mean to be mean, but I'm just saying to say well I'm gonna submit to you and you're gonna submit to me well no no it just you can't you know you can't say well here's the decision we got to make and Stephanie you know I'm gonna make it and you're gonna submit to me and at the same time you're gonna make it and I'm gonna submit to you you know at the end of the day you can't make it yeah yeah that's what I'm saying is you you mutual submission actually is something you can't do when it comes down to disagreement on something. So which I think is why what you said is super helpful and that if what you mean is we're going to be really kind of you know whenever you and I'll just talk about you know.

Stephanie

You and I on date nights. I always get to pick the restaurant because you love me well in that moment from the outside looking in it may look like you are submitting to me in my restaurant choice. However you are actually loving me very well, saying, I love you. I want you to feel loved. I will sacrifice maybe the restaurant that I want in order to make you happy.

Jon

Yeah. And we might totally disagree. We might be like, I want to go here and you might say, I want to go here. I'm going to say, you know what, it's date night. This is about me making my wife happy. And so I'm going to, you're going to pick the restaurant and that's not mutual submission. I think that's just me as a husband making a smart decision for sacrificial love, which is how Christ loves the church. Yeah. Yeah, right

Jon

So I think that phrase mutual submission so so to be fair to those who are using that phrase I think what they're thinking I was I think they're thinking of Ephesians 521, the verse that comes right before where it says, wives submit to your own husbands in Ephesians 5, which says, submitting to one another out of reverence for God. So there's different discussion about how that verse fits into the paragraph, but I think interpreters across history have just understood, okay, so it says, you know, submitting to one another and there's the paragraph before that that's talking about how Christians relate to each other. But then also there's these roles coming up, and I think no matter what you do with Ephesians 521, it has to make sense in relationship to the verses that follow it. So the verses that follow it then talk about wives submit to husbands, then it talks about kids submit to parents, then it talks about slaves submit to masters, slaves or servants submit to your masters, and so, you know, it's kind of a strange move to say, well, because 521 says submit to one another, then wives are supposed to submit to husbands and husbands are supposed to submit to wives. You wouldn't then carry that also and say, well, kids are supposed to submit to parents and parents are supposed to submit to kids. Or you wouldn't say, well, bosses are supposed to submit to their employees.

Jon

You know, it's a category.

Stephanie

Context is so important.

Jon

Yeah, totally. So when you read the verse in context, I would say that 521 is kind of a, it's kind of a general statement of, we all do submission. We all submit to somebody and we're all supposed to do that. And then the following verses clarify who you submit to. So wives are supposed to submit to husbands, kids submit to their parents, slaves or servants submit to their masters. So whatever you do with 521, it has to make sense with what comes after it. The text doesn't say, and also husbands submit to your wives. It says one clearly versus the other.

Stephanie

So I think we need to be really careful about what we're saying, right? So mutual submission, we just talked about that. But can I lovingly say that if you are doing this because you don't agree with what God has said in the Bible, which is very clear, that you're basically doing the same thing that Adam and Eve did in the garden. Because in the garden, they took the fruit because they thought that they knew better than God, right? They took that fruit because they wanted to be like God, knowing good and evil to make their own set of rules. And we do that same thing. And I think we do that in marriage when we say, well, the Bible says to submit, but I'm going to do it my way. And I think any time that we try to follow a design that's a different than God's design, will never be what's best for us. It will never lead to true lasting happiness, and it will never glorify and worship God, which is what our marriages should strive to do, right?

Jon

Yeah, that's right. So this comes under a core Christian belief about the Bible. The Bible is not a book of arbitrary rules, that it's not God as a cosmic bully saying, this is what I want you to do, whether you like it or not, and it's going to make you miserable, but I want you to do it. The Bible is actually God's good design for the world, for human beings, for marriage. And so the way that God lays it out, the relationships there between husbands and wives, that is actually what's best for human beings. That's what we believe, because God is good and his word is good. And so if you're coming at this saying, you know, I think that category of mutual submission, again, we've talked about, I want to be fair, you know, I think some people might come at it thinking in a little different way than I think they intend to. But in general, I would say what we're talking about is the way of the world versus the way of the Bible. And we want to go with the way of the Bible.

Stephanie

And I think even to think through what's your why? Why are you trying to use different words than what scripture is using? I think sometimes as a woman reading the Bible, there are certain verses or certain things, like sometimes submission, if I'm being honest, I read that sometimes and I want to shy away from it because I think, how is this good? And really the question underneath that, that I'm really asking is, is God good? Because if there's something that I'm reading that makes me question God's goodness, I need to stop and I need to evaluate what I know to be true. I know that God is good and I know that God's design is what's best for me. So why am I trying to shy away from this design? And I think sometimes you can shy away from it because you're scared that underneath this idea of authority and submission, we're going to find this stoic God who's full of wrath and that he doesn't really want what's best for me. But I can rest in God's goodness and say no. I can really dig in and lean into submission as a wife because I know that God is good and even if I may struggle with it or get hurt by it at some point because we're married to men that are sinners just like I am as a wife, that doesn't mean that God's not good. And I need to persevere through that because I want what's best for me and that's what God has said is best for me.

Jon

Yeah, yeah, I am a sinful broken man and all men are besides Jesus. So am I. Yeah, and yep, yep. So marriage is not going to be perfect. God's design is perfect, but we live in a sinful world and we are sinners. And so, yeah, you follow this design, it is going to involve pain and conflict, but that's not because God's design is wrong. It's because we're sinful broken people. And it is still best to follow God's design. It's going to be the best thing for us and it's going to be the way that we live in all eternity, God's design. That's the way we're going to live after this life and in the next life. So if you're a couple or a husband or a wife and you're wrestling through this and you're like, man, this teaching from the Bible is new to me or I'm a little bit shocked that I didn't realize how countercultural it was. This is not the perspective of the world, and you're right. This might really come at you as something that's kind of new and different and really hard to hear and hard to digest. And I just want to say, we're praying for you. This week at Peace Church, while we're walking through this sermon series, we're praying for marriages and couples in our church, and anybody who's listening to this, because this is tough and countercultural, and it's going to lead to some hard conversations in your marriage. But my encouragement would be to dig into God's word, be open to submitting to the Lord and his design for your life and for your marriage, even though it might appear challenging and different.

Mitchell

Let's jump into some lightning questions as we end. All right, here we go. I desperately want to have a Christian marriage, but my husband refuses to go to church and is not a Christian, what should I do?

Question #4: I desperately want to have a Christian marriage, but my husband refuses to go to church and is not a Christian, what should I do?

Stephanie

I think the first thing you need to do is to pray, because we can't change anything God can change. God can use us, and as a wife, God can use me to influence or maybe to draw my husband's gaze to the Lord, but I can't do anything in myself to soften his heart. That has to be God, and so I think the first thing we have to do is to pray.

JonYeah, I think that's a great answer. I also think I think of some times when when I've been wrong and my wife has lovingly Convinced to me to go the right direction over time. I think that's usually been not through Persistent nagging or through sort of browbeating me. It's been more through just demonstrating where I've just been sort of shocked and even ashamed a little bit by your love and kindness and generosity to me, even when I'm in the wrong. And eventually, I think that awakens my senses to realize that you are in the right. So, but yeah, like you said, praying for the Holy Spirit's work in that man's life, just that sort of persistent, doing good, being loving, being an amazing spouse, and hoping and praying for him to come to church.

Stephanie

And I think even just as a really practical thing, somebody had encouraged me, if there is something that you want to address your husband about with his character, set aside and pray for 30 days before you confront him. And there's been times in our marriage where I've done that and you know what? I didn't have to have a conversation with you because God worked in your heart through me praying. I didn't say a word to you when you were convicted.

Jon

Well, not really want to know what all those times were. I'm really interested.

Stephanie

But I was just, as a wife, that's a really practical, I think, tangible step that somebody told me that was immensely helpful. Pray for 30 days and then have a conversation.

Mitchell

Well, unfortunately, we don't have time to list them all because we're in the lightning round. So we're going to move on to the next question. Next question, and last one in the lightning round. How, as a woman, do you honor and respect your husband if he does not honor and respect you? Going off of the 1 Peter 3, 1 and 2 reference.

Question #5: How, as a woman, do you honor and respect your husband if he does not honor and respect you?

Jon

Yeah, I'll jump in before you do and actually say, you know, first I just want to reiterate the importance of this point that abuse is not a situation that we want you to stay in. So if this means that you are in an abusive situation, please get help. Please find a way to let somebody know about the pain that you're in and hopefully you can find somebody who can help you get out of that situation. We never want to encourage somebody to stay in an abusive situation.

Stephanie

I love that they're not asking if you have to or not. They're assuming that you do, and I think that's the right assumption. Yes, you do need to honor and love your husband, even if he's not showing that to you. And I think we get that from really what marriage is designed to point us towards, right? John Piper has this beautiful book called A Momentary Marriage, A Parable of Permanence. And this book, the entire book explores what is the purpose of marriage. And the purpose of marriage is to reflect God and his people. We see in the Old Testament through the prophet Hosea where he uses this prophet as like this example or parable almost that he's taking an unfaithful wife just like God's people have been unfaithful to him. And yet God pursues Israel and he saves them and redeems them time and time again. And so we need to really do what the Lord has modeled for us and Jesus too in the New Testament.

Stephanie

What does Jesus do? Jesus dies on the cross. He loves us so much to his own detriment that we take that as a wife. I take that as my blueprint of what I'm to do. And that's what I need to look to for marriage.

Jon

That's a great answer. Yeah, this is a painful spot to be. I think the woman of 1 Peter 3 here that we're thinking of and talking about is an amazing woman, an amazing example and point to the gospel.

Well, hey, thanks so much, Stephanie. Thanks Mitch. Thanks everybody for listening. You can find more content like this at resoundmedia.cc. Thanks everybody.