Sanctity of Life: Looking at Abortion Through A Biblical Lens

Jon

Oh Hey everyone, welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast of Peace Church and a part of Resound Media. You can find more great content for the Christian life and church leaders at resoundmedia.cc. That's a Good Question is a place where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. I'm Jon, I get to serve as a pastor here at Peace Church.

I also get to serve as the weekly host of this show. You can always submit questions at peacechurch.cc/questions. Now we had planned to do a second episode in our marriage series this week, an episode on men's, because last week we talked about women and their role in marriage in our series going through Ephesians chapter five. You can find the sermons that go along with that series at resoundmedia.cc or at peacechurch.cc. But due to the snow and all that kind of weather going on this past weekend, we actually postponed that. So it's going to be one week back. So next week, tune in to That's a Good Question. We're going to be answering questions talking specifically about the role of men in marriage. But instead, this week, we're going to be talking about sanctity of life. This Sunday is actually Sanctity of Life Sunday. We're going to talk more about that in a minute. But I'm here today with Rachel Bailey, the executive director of the Alpha Women's and Family Center.

Rachel, welcome.

Rachel

Thank you. It's good to be here.

Jon

Great to have you. Excited to talk about Sanctity of Life. The Alpha Women's and Family Center is an organization that has a lot to do with protecting life and caring for people. We'll get into that in just a minute. But yeah, this Sunday is Sanctity of Life Sunday, and it's a Sunday that churches especially take to get to celebrate and reflect on the value of life and especially the value of unborn human lives. So we're going to take a few questions on that topic. Ready to rock?

Rachel

I'm ready.

Jon

Cool. Let's do it. Producer Mitchell, you want to hit us with some questions?

Mitchell

Yep, here we go. Why do churches talk about abortion? Isn't this a political issue?

Question #1: Why do churches talk about abortion? Isn't this a political issue?

Jon

Shouldn't the church not interfere in politics? Yeah, good question. So let's talk about that. Why do churches talk about abortion? Is it political or is it biblical? My quick answer to that is that this is actually not a political issue, this is a biblical issue, this is a Bible issue. The Bible speaks to it pretty clearly in several places. To think of one, in the Psalms, Psalm 139 talks about being knit together in the womb, that human beings are knit together by God in the womb. Other parts of scripture talk about, I think of David, even speaking about his son in the womb as a person, a human being who is alive. Rachel, any scripture you want to add to that list?

Rachel

Yeah, I mean I think of, yeah, just the idea of us being image bearers in general, going back to Genesis. You know, we don't start to become an image bearer of God once we are born. That is from the very beginning, from our very conception. So because of that, yeah, it's not a political issue. Sometimes it becomes a political issue, and in some ways, maybe that's okay, because it becomes really, it goes out to more people. It's shown in the world more often. But the church should really care about it as well. The church should care about life because the Bible cares about life and our Lord cares about life.

Jon

Yeah, amen. Yeah. Yeah, so it's a biblical issue, something that God speaks to. It's a moral issue. And like you were saying, it's not a bad thing that it becomes a political issue because I've said many times, you know, politics is not a bad thing. Politics literally means like the affairs of the city, you know, the palace is the city. So politics are just the affairs of the city. It's the things going on in our world. So in fact, it's a really good thing that a biblical value like life and unborn human life goes out into the world and becomes an actual issue that we talk about. So it's not bad that it's a political issue, but, you know, this is not, when we talk about abortion in the church, it's not an instance of the church becoming too political, getting engaged in things that are beyond its jurisdiction. This is the church talking about what God's Word says and how it applies to everyday life.

Rachel

Yeah, correct.

Jon

So, one other one would be like John the Baptist jumps in Elizabeth's womb, his mother's womb. You know, there's a story of him already celebrating the coming of the Messiah when Elizabeth and Mary come together. Or you could think of even Romans 9, scripture talks about God thinking about Jacob and Esau even before they're born. So I think all over the place it's clear that scripture sees human beings as made in God's image of inherently valuable. They're not the same as animals, they have special and unique value, and that their life begins before they are birthed in the womb. So I think that's clear in scripture, but also we could say it's even clearer outside of Scripture. I think we could make arguments from science that it's true that human life is going on before the baby comes out of the womb.

Rachel

Right, yeah. I mean, you think about viability has changed, and 21 weeks and 5 days right now, scientifically, a baby can be viable outside of the womb. And so, they're fully formed enough to be able to take their first breaths outside of the womb, with help of course. And again, I do hesitate to share that number because it has changed even in the last few years. It has changed to be even lower. And so I definitely could see it, seeing a baby be viable outside of the womb even earlier than that in the coming years. But yeah, and a heartbeat is detectable at six weeks. I remember going in for my ultrasound around eight weeks and hearing my baby's heartbeat for the first time and just the joy and excitement over that and realizing, yes, this is a human life that is valuable even at this early moment.

Jon

And one of the other interesting scientific things I've heard about is the spark of life that scientists have observed when the egg and the sperm meet each other, there is actually some kind of change that immediately happens, a spark that can be seen, visible, that life comes to be when the egg and the sperm meet each other. So in the Bible and in science we can see evidence that there is life going on in the womb. So let me just kind of even zoom out a little bit and talk about kind of how we're coming at this topic. So if you're listening to this, and we just wanna be abundantly clear about the biblical worldview and perspective about where life begins and about the value of human life. And we are saying that then resulting that abortion is the ending of a human life. And so that becomes a moral problem. But I also wanna right away jump in and say, if you're listening to this and you are somebody who has had an abortion, I just want to speak in your mind that that is not the unforgivable sin. Jesus died to take away all sin. When we put our faith in Him as our Lord and our Savior and our treasure, our sin is taken away, including the sin of abortion. So I want to be abundantly clear about what the Bible says, but I don't want that clarity to also result in condemnation. Think of passages like Romans 8, 1 that says, there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So if you're listening and coming from that place, you've been involved in some capacity as a mom or as a dad or as a friend or as a grandma and grandpa, some way related to an abortion or as a health care worker, that's the gospel news from Jesus that all sin can be free. There's no sin that's too big for the cross. So whatever situation we're coming from at this topic, we want to just be really clear about a biblical worldview and what Scripture does say about this important topic.

Mitchell

I think that's a great place to jump into our next question. Should there be exceptions to abortion in certain situations.

Question #2: Should there be exceptions to abortion in certain situations?

Rachel

Yeah, so that is kind of the sticking point for a lot of people. Many people even consider themselves pro-life, but might say that there's quite a few exceptions to that rule where, you know, sometimes abortion is okay. I think we have to go back to the definition of abortion. It's, it's the killing of a baby and more specifically it's the violent killing of a child. There's a difference between abortion and an early labor as well. So again those exceptions might be something like rape or incest or something like the the mother, I just read about it this morning, a mother might be going through cancer treatment soon and and that baby can't survive with those cancer treatments, and so they need to deliver that baby early. That process of delivery is much different than the process of violently killing that child in the womb. And so I think that's where we really have to land is if we are truly pro-life, there isn't really any exceptions for abortion. There might be times when early labor is required to save either the baby or the mom, but that's very different.

Jon

Yeah, right. Yeah, I mean those situations that you bring up are horrible situations. You know, take the instance of rape, for example. What an awful situation, can't imagine. And And yet what we're saying is that this additional wrong, this additional horrible thing of killing a child violently isn't the solution. Mom and child have now been put into an incredibly difficult situation as a result of that terrible act. But the solution isn't abortion. There are other solutions. Let's try to have that human life receive the best care and love as possible, as well as that mother.

Rachel

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and rape and incest specifically, there's no real reason to punish the child or punish the mother for the sins of the father that brought those about. And yeah, that's just really important to remember. And specifically, abortion isn't just something that ends the life violently of a baby. It also leaves the mother with a lot of trauma. There's a lot of research about that. And so do we really want to put a mother through even more trauma than she's already experienced?

Jon

Sure.

Mitchell

Yeah. Are pro-life people actually just pro-birth and do not care about women, mothers, and children after they're born?

 Question #3: Are pro-life people actually just pro-birth and do not care about women, mothers, and children after they're born?

Jon

Yeah, good question. So that's an accusation that's come against pro-life people quite a lot in the last couple of years. So the accusation or the argument is essentially to say, hey, you guys only advocate for unborn babies but you don't actually care about people after they're born or about mothers who have just had a child, who haven't had an abortion. And so you say you're pro-life, but you're not actually pro-life, you're just pro that unborn baby, and that's all you care about. You're taking an idealistic stance on that one issue and not actually caring for life in general. Now, I would argue that that's not true. And actually, the Alpha Women's and Family Center is one example of how that's not true. Rachel, do you mind sharing a little bit about how that is?

Rachel

Yeah, I think since starting my job at Alpha Women's and Family Center, I have just realized that that accusation is truly untrue. That a lot of the services that we provide are for after the mother has given birth to that baby or a family, a mom and a dad, that just want a little extra support. support, whether it's physical support like diapers and wipes and formula, we provide that or mentoring and parenting classes, we provide that as well. So there's just a lot of different opportunities for the church to step in and be the hands and feet after a baby is born. And I think part of the issue is that you hear a lot in the media and just around the world about abortion specifically. You don't hear as much about the solutions and resources after the fact, after a baby is born, or post-abortive care as well. But specifically after a baby is born, that's just not as glamorous, I would say, to talk about some of those really hard things where a mom and a dad just need a little bit extra help. And we're here for that. And we care about those families in our community that are struggling.

Jon

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's been that's been true for us at Peace Church. And in our relationship with ministries like the Alpha Women's and Family Center, as well as the Pregnancy Resource Center in Grand Rapids, each of those ministries supports, especially the mothers of children. And so I yeah, like you said, I think that accusation is untrue. But also, I kind of want to address even just the logic of the argument to say, OK, it's really not, you know, you're not actually answering our argument about abortion and the killing of a child. So, you know, get back to the issue instead of subverting. So, you know, let's say if it was true and if it was true that we were only pro unborn baby and not pro the other things. Now, you know, we should address that, but the answer is not to pull back and get weaker on advocating for the life of the unborn child. You know, that's not actually an argument about the topic. It's kind of a subversion, a step aside to sort of talk about a different issue instead of actually addressing the main issue of we want to advocate for those who absolutely can't advocate for themselves. If there was ever somebody who couldn't advocate for themselves as the unborn child, they have no way to do that.

Mitchell

For people or for people in churches who may hear that criticism and may feel convicted right now that maybe they aren't stepping as much into that after-birth care for women and children and families, where have you seen that? Like how would you respond to someone who's saying, yeah, you know what, I really care about unborn children, but maybe I need to grow a little bit.

Rachel

Yeah, I think if someone came to that realization, that's awesome. You know, of course we do care about that unborn child and that is so good that this person cares about this and is advocating for the voice of the unborn. But yes, there are lots of opportunities for individuals and churches to get involved with women and families once that child is in the world, and there's lots of needs. I can think of a few very specific ways that churches can get involved that here at PEACE we've gotten involved is supporting foster care families. We have quite a large group of foster care families here at Peace and adoptive families as well. And they are all very connected with each other. Peace has really helped facilitate that as well, helped facilitate that connection. So that's something you can do as a church is even just hosting a dinner for foster care families and adoptive families to just come together and share about the struggles and share about the joys and the beauty of being in that type of ministry. Another one is Care Portal, which is something that is somewhat new to Michigan, but it's something that we've been involved in here at Peace. And it connects churches to centers like Alpha Women's Center in Grand Rapids and Pregnancy Resource Center in Grand Rapids. And those centers will give out, will say a need that they have. So hey, we have this mom that came in that needs a crib. And these churches get to respond directly to that need. That is a really, you know, feet on the ground way to support families in our community. Again, being both pro-life at the beginning of life and once that baby is in the world and beyond.

Mitchell

Yeah, I like that. Can you say that website again? Yeah, Care Portal. Okay, we'll make sure to put that in the show notes for everyone.

Jon

Okay, perfect. Yeah.

Rachel

That's awesome.

Jon

Sounds good. Yeah, I love that. So, thinking back to New Testament times, Christians were known for being those that, you know, when a family would have a baby that they didn't want, that baby would literally end up on the trash heap, you know, at the city dump. It's an awful, tragic thing. But Christians were known for being those who went there and found those babies and took them home with them, to care for them. And so now, I mean, that's how we want to be known. We want to be known as the church, the Christians who are involved, who care, who not only advocate, but also reach in and try to help young moms and families and children. So whether that's through foster care, like you mentioned, or through partnering with Pregnancy Resource Center or Alpha Women's Center, supporting women. But yeah, we want to be known as those who show Jesus' love in that way by trying to reach in and support and help those. Awesome. Rachel, anything else you want to share about the Alpha Women's and Family Center, other ministry that you guys do?

Rachel

Sure, yeah. So Alpha Women's and Family Center is a small but mighty, I would say, ministry in Hastings. And so we serve all of Berry County. We do mentoring for moms and young families. They can come in. I'll even watch your kids while you come in and do mentoring. It's been quite fun to watch kiddos. And we offer parenting classes and all of those types of things. We also offer more material resources like I mentioned before, diapers, wipes, shampoo, some of the things that aren't covered on WIC as well. And we also pretty recently just started a clothing exchange that is open to the entire community. So anyone can come in and exchange their baby's clothes that are, you know, gently used for the next size up or if they're having a new baby for their new baby's clothes or whatever. So I really encourage you to check that out. We are located right next to the Wendy's so you can grab some lunch and then kind of come on over and visit us during the week. So yeah, those are some of the big things that are happening there right now. There's lots more things that are coming in this year, and that includes, we are in pretty extensive training right now to offer ultrasounds, limited ultrasounds at our facility. So that's really gonna change a lot of the dynamics of our center, but we're excited for it, we're ready for it. Really looking forward to hopefully bringing in more moms that just don't realize the value of that beautiful baby inside of them and maybe they get to see see and hear the heartbeat of that baby for the first time. That would be such a joy. So that's some of the awesome things we do. Yeah. Yeah.

Jon

Amen. That's awesome. Well, Rachel Thanks so much for your ministry and thank you so much for being here to get to talk with us. Just to remind everybody that this Sunday is Sanctity of Life Sunday, so great opportunity to get to remember, reflect on, pray for the value of unborn human life.

Mitchell

Can I ask one more thing?

Jon

Oh yeah.

Mitchell

Yeah. So if people wanted to connect with you, ask you more questions about this, or if they had questions or just wanted to see more about what you do. Where could they find you?

Rachel

Find Alpha? Yeah. So we have a website of alphawomenscenterbc.org and we also are on Facebook. My goal is to get us on Instagram as well. It's where all the trendy hip people are, you know. So you can look at any of those. My email is also on our website so you can go right on there and I will receive those emails directly and would love to connect with you.

Jon

Awesome. Yeah. You can find That's a Good Question at resoundmedia.cc or wherever you listen to podcasts.