Divine Dialogue: Embracing the Art of Prayer

Mitchell

Hey everyone, welcome to That's a Good Question, a podcast of Peace Church and a part of Resound Media. That's a Good Question is a place where we answer questions about the Christian faith in plain language. I'm Mitch, I get to produce this show, and you can always submit questions to peacechurch.cc/questions. into these questions around prayer. So here's the first question. Why do things we pray for not happen? 1 John 5, 14 through 15, make it seem like we don't have what we ask for because God hasn't heard our prayers.

Question 1: So here's the first question. Why do things we pray for not happen?

Jon

Yeah, it's a good question. It's one I've been asked several times in different ways as a pastor, and one of the things I feel like is important to point out right at the beginning here is that this isn't one of those questions that's just an abstraction. This is a very practical question. I've been asked this by people at times who are asking this question because they prayed that they would recover from an illness or that a mom or a dad or a child or a friend wouldn't pass away as a result of an illness, something like that. And then it doesn't work out the way that they had hoped. And so they're asking the question, you know, did God hear my prayer? Did he not? Why did he not answer the way that I asked him to? So important question. Did we read the text? Should we read the text a minute?

Mitchell

Yeah, that was what I was going to ask next. What does this passage mean? First John 5, 14 through 15.

Question 2: What does this passage mean?

Jon

Yeah, let me read it. Here we go. I got it right here. And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the request that we have asked of him. All right, so a few different things going onhere in the text. So it's talking about our confidence that we have when we go to God with prayer. And then it's talking about if we ask God for something, it says specifically there's a condition, it says we have to ask according to his will. So we'll come back to that in a second. In verse 15 it says, let me read it. Here we go. I got it right here. And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the request that we have asked of him. All right, so a few different things going on here about how the Christians should be confident when they pray, and yet the problem is, that the person is asking is, we don't always get exactly what we prayed for, so how does that all work together? When somebody asks me kind of questions like this, I usually say that there's basically three answers. This is something people have said many times, that there's usually like three answers that God gives to prayer. It's yes, no, or later. I would maybe add to that one, yes, but in a different way than you thought, is kind of a fourth answer that God sometimes gives. The key is what that passage is saying about according to God's will. So I think sometimes we come to prayer thinking that the whole point of prayer is for me to impose my will on God, to say, God, you don't know what I want or need, and so I'm going to tell you so that you can give it to me. But it actually doesn't work that way. It's actually, I think the purpose of prayer is really more for us to get our will in line with God's will. And so that's why I think there's that condition going on in the text of we have to ask according to God's will.

Mitchell

Why do you think that condition is there? I guess maybe what does it mean to pray according to God's will?

Question 3: What does it mean to pray against God's will?

Jon

Yeah, I think it was John Stott that said every prayer is just a variation on quote unquote your will be done. That's what, you know, the way Jesus says it in the Lord's Prayer and the way he demonstrates it for us at the Garden of Gethsemane. Remember, Jesus, you know, prays. Jesus demonstrated this for us from his own life. He's in the Garden of Gethsemane, he's praying, he's weeping, he's sweating blood, he's just about to go to the cross and he prays, Father, if there's

Mitchell

any other way we can do this, let's do it that way, you know, please take away this cup from me, meaning the cross, I don't want to go through this. And then at the end, he concludes, but your will be done. So I think that's the point, is that every prayer that we make to God has to be submitted to God's will. We don't get to say to God, this is what I want, regardless of what you want, and let's do it that way. It's more like every prayer we make to God is us saying, God, I'm laying out my heart before you. God does call us to pray and to ask and to be specific. Lots of passages in scripture we could talk about that do that. This one in 1 John 5, 1 John chapter 3, I think it's verse 22 talks about that, James chapter 5.

Jon

So God tells us all over the place to pray to him, to pray specifically, to ask, not be afraid to ask. And so we are supposed to do that. But then we also have to submit to God's will. So some of that is, you know, we bring in how do you pray according to God's will? Some of that is you have no God's will, so you got to know the Bible, you got to know what God's design is for you. And so you need to pray things according to scripture. For example, if you were to pray something that's the opposite of God's will, if you were to pray for somebody to get killed, you know, God says do not murder. If you were to pray for somebody to get murdered, it's not gonna work out. You know, that's not according to God's will. Very, very clearly opposed to God's will. But, you know, and there's certain areas where we don't know God's, you know, example, if you're praying for somebody to get better from an illness. You don't know, you don't know what God's will is, whether it's God's will for them to get better, to not get better. And so that's why I think the prayer makes sense of the way I usually pray is, Lord, please heal this person. Please help them recover from sickness. We love them. We care about them. You're doing amazing things through them on this earth, so please keep them here. But ultimately, your will be done.

Mitchell

Yeah.

Jon

And I think that's just kind of, we have to, you know, we ask for what we want and we think is best, but ultimately we submit it to God.

Mitchell

Yeah, I think ultimately when we look at God's perspective versus ours, God is infinite, he's eternal, right? He has an eternal perspective where we are finite creatures who have seen just a sliver of time. And so to pray, God, let this be your will and to pray into his will or pray things that are in his will is submitting to him and saying, God, your perspective is vastly wiser and greater than mine is. And so I need to submit myself to you because I can't see everything that you can see or have seen. can be a little arrogant to say, no God, I'm gonna change your mind, when we've only seen just a sliver of what he's seen, both in eternity past and eternity future.

Jon

Right, it's a lot like the parent-child relationship. I think recently we went to Costco and got the big old bag of chocolate chips, and unfortunately, they were on the top shelf, but unfortunately that top shelf was within reach if one of my kids is standing on a stool. So they found it, they got to it, he's got chocolate all over his mouth, and I caught him and I take him away. And, why, dad? That's not fair. Well, because I know better than you, son. You might think it sounds great to just eat nothing but chocolate chips, but I happen to know that's not good for you. And that's why. And so you extrapolate that out to an infinite scale, God to us creatures. And then you see, yeah, God's got a much bigger perspective than we do.

Mitchell

Yeah. So if we're going to recap this, how does prayer work?

Question 4: How does prayer work?

Jon

I think on the one hand, prayer is extremely simple. On the other, it's extremely deep and rich. So on the simple side, prayer is God's children, us, going to our father and, well, it can take a few different forms. It can take us praising him, thanking him, and then also asking for things. Or I would add to that also confession, confession is a part of prayer, confessing our sins to God and asking for his forgiveness. So all of those things, sitting before the Father and either, the classic acronym is ACTS, Acts, Adoration, Praising God, Confession, Confessing our sins before God, Thanksgiving, Thanking God for things, and that's supplication, which is a fancy word for asking God for things. So, in simple, that's what I would say.

Mitchell

So, we are from a reformed, formerly reformed denomination, but we've got reformed roots, which believes in the sovereignty of God. So, why should we pray to God at all if we believe that God's predestined everything and that he's planned everything out?

Jon

Ah, yeah, yeah, good question. I've actually been asked a little bit different spin on that question a few times I can take a one-time in specific somebody asked me Pastor John Why should I wear my seatbelt if God is in control and has predestined everything to happen? Hmm does it matter that I wear my seatbelt and I matters to a police officer. That's right. That's right So that's one reason. But the other reason that I've said is because God not only ordains the ends, he also ordains the means. So the ends are the result, the thing that happens, whether you get injured or not injured in a car accident. The means are things such as that seatbelt. So if God's design is for you to get in a car accident but not have serious injury or not die or whatever, one of the means, the instruments that he might use to accomplish that is the seatbelt. And God ordained both of those things. And not only that, but also God very clearly in Scripture tells us, be wise, I gave you a brain, use it. All those things have been put in place. So I think that's the answer to that. So why pray is number one, because God told us to in the Bible. God tells us explicitly several times, even models for us in the Lord's Prayer. I think of Luke 18, where Jesus gives the parable of the persistent widow. He tells us not just pray, but pray a lot and pray repeatedly, and even feel free to ask for the same things repeatedly. So God tells us to pray. It's not whether it's effective or not, it's whether Jesus is God or not. Sure, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's a starting point. I think actually in world Reformed theology, people can sometimes sort of think that they know better than the Bible. You can sort of take some of the concepts of good theology, and then you run them out on your own, past what the Bible's actually saying. And you say, well, if we believe all this stuff about God being in control and having it all planned ahead of time, well, then it doesn't matter what I do, or like in this question, what I pray. But that's not what the Bible says. And so you can't just sort of take some teaching of the Bible and use your own brain to sort of move it out beyond what the Bible has said. You got to stick with what the Bible actually says, and it says to pray. And part of that is, like we said, the means and the ends. God has ordained the ends that are going to happen, but he's also ordained the means, you praying. That's supposed to be part of the equation. And that's not because God's going to change his mind, but because I think mostly because it's going to change our hearts. Prayer is where we go before God and we actually are the ones who get changed by submitting our wills to God's will.

Mitchell

John Frame has this really awesome quote in one of his books on the theology of lordship. He says, God ordains prayer as a means to change history. There are things that happen because of prayer and things that do not happen because of no prayer. He goes on to say, now of course prayer doesn't change the eternal plan of God, but within that eternal plan there are many plans for means and ends. Yeah. Which I think is just beautiful. I also think one other reason why we should pray is because God's our Father. You know, God is incredibly relational, and he wants to hear our prayer. I think of my children, like, I love when they ask for things that are good. I love being able to give that to them. And I also love when they ask me things for things that are bad before they do them. Like, recently, my four-year-old asked if he could cut the dog's hair. And I love that he asked me that before it happened. It's nice when they ask ahead of time. Yeah, because then I could come alongside and say, like, you could hurt our dog, and that's not a good thing. Or, you know, it would just make our dog look really weird, and dogs don't need haircuts. But it's a beautiful thing to be able to give our children things that they want, that there's like a joy, at least I think for most parents, there's a joy that comes from that. Yeah, and on an infinitely grander scale, God does that for us, too.I'm sure he has that same feeling and loves to give us things that are within his will that he wants, and he's delighted that we want those same things.

Jon

Yeah, prayer isn't just transactional, it's relational. Absolutely. Yeah, so if you're caught up in, well, God knows what he's going to do, therefore I shouldn't pray. We've already talked about some answers to that, but maybe another answer is that you're actually thinking about prayer wrong. Prayer is about the relationship between you and your Father. It's not just a transaction. I go to the mat to try to get something out of God. It's not really a good way to think about prayer.

Mitchell

Yeah. I think a beautiful prayer is, God, reveal your word to me as you open up my morning Sure. By morning Bible, you know, like, obviously, he's, he's wanting to do that. You're going to him, to his word. But how delighted would God be in hearing that prayer from you? Yeah. What about passages in the Bible, like Luke 18, where it seems like God's changing his mind or asking us to pray in a way that would change his mind?

Jon

Or I think even of, like in Jonah, passages where it says that God relented from what he was going to do, relented from disaster in that example. Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, I think that fits right into kind of what we've been saying of it. it's from, a matter of perspective, you know? So from an eternal perspective, that was actually what God was always gonna do. But from an earthly, temporal, day-to-day perspective, that prayer had to happen in order for God to respond the way He did. And I don't, as a human being, I can't fully grasp how those things can be true at the same time, but I think it's just true that they are. I think that's what Scripture lays out for us, that it's true that God is sovereign, He's in control, He has an eternal plan, and they have consequences.

Mitchell

Yeah.

Jon

Those just, they just work together. I don't fully grasp that, but they do. And so, I think sometimes scripture gives us, speaks to us in a way that is from that earthly perspective of, you know, like you said in Luke 18, the persistent widow.

Mitchell

How about this? What would be some improper ways to pray?

Question 5: What is an Improper way to pray?

Jon

Standing on your head while doing jumpa jacks. No, I'm just kidding. Improper ways would be trying to exert your will on God. I think if you go to, like we've been talking about, if you go to the prayer and you're trying to say, God, you've got to do this for me, or even some of the bargaining that we're very tempted to do all the time. God, if you do this for me, then I'll do this for you. I'd say that's an unhealthy, improper approach to prayer because that's just not how it works.

Mitchell

Or how about even that twisting of God's arm saying, look at God, I did this for you, so you need to show up for me now.

Jon

Yeah. I would say that's probably it. That's not so good. I think that misses the understanding of grace and works and how that all fits together in Scripture, understanding that actually we don't bring any merit to the table. This is a whole other conversation, but we're gonna do an episode in just a couple weeks on Catholicism. And so, thinking about that, that's actually kind of a way that Catholic prayer kind of works. Is you're praying based on the treasury of merit of the saints. You're saying because of the saints and their great works, and maybe even my own great works, that I deserve this, this should happen. As Protestants, we're saying, nope, we don't have good works that merit anything. We are sinful human beings saved by grace and grace alone, and then God calls us to do good works by response, but they don't earn anything.

Mitchell

Yeah, yeah. I'd also say, going off of that Catholic idea, praying to anyone besides God would be an improper way to do prayer. Maybe just this not praying, that seems like a simple one or one that we might overlook, but I think it's worth saying. And I think praying for sinful things, praying for things we know God says, yeah, don't do this.

Jon

Yeah, praying for God to give you something that is directly against his will, which is precisely what this passage is talking about.

Mitchell

Yeah. What are some misconceptions, maybe not ways that we could pray wrong, but what are some misconceptions about prayer?

Question 6: What are some misconceptions about prayer?

Jon 

I've known some guys that pray only in Old English. Yeah. King James style stuff. The, Thine, Thou. 

Mitchell

If you want to do that, that's different than feeling like you have to do that.

Jon

Yeah, yeah, actually I'm glad you said that. Don't get me wrong. If you want to pray that way, if you, you know, were raised in that, or if you are a time traveler or you just like that you studied a lot of Shakespeare or something, or if you, you know, are reading only the King James Version, you know, that's another topic we talk about, but if you feel comfortable praying in that language, you can. It's not wrong, but you definitely don't have to

Mitchell

How about this? Can you prepare a prayer before you pray it? Does that make it inauthentic or is that a wrong way to pray?

Jon

I think that's a great way to pray, actually. I do that personally sometimes just because I have a very distracted mind, so I can get— if I sit down by myself to pray, especially if I'm not praying out loud, my mind can wander really easily. So sometimes I will just sit down and write it out just because I think it keeps me focused better. Sometimes I delete it as soon as I'm done. But no, I don't think there's anything wrong with writing it out You know spontaneity doesn't mean greater spirituality you can plan ahead and prepare um, in fact, you know at church we recommend that or even you know demand that that if you're gonna If you're gonna lead us in prayer on a sunday morning on the stage, you should you should plan that out ahead of time Yeah, shouldn't be just making it up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah plan out ahead of time These are the things i'm going to pray for

Mitchell

how about this? Um, maybe this is one of the more bigger misconceptions, but you don't have to pray with your eyes closed and your hands folded, your head bowed. Unless you're one of my kids at prayer time at night. Correct.

Jon

Unless you're listening to your parents. No, you don't have to do it that way. I think that the history of that is just to help us be focused and largely for children. It's not a bad way to go, but yeah, you don't have to do it. You'll actually find me walking around, you might see my lips kind of moving, mumbling a little bit, because that's kind of a frequent thing. I'm usually kind of thinking about the next thing I'm gonna do, and so if you see me walking through the hallway or around campus or something, I might be just kind of mumbling a prayer as I'm walking.

Mitchell

Yeah, I do that while I drive, and I think it would be really dangerous to pray with my eyes closed and drive.

Jon

That's a good call. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hands folded would be dangerous too, while you're driving?

MitchellI

think the last one I had on here was, if I'm not, you know, I don't need to pray out loud, that's only for pastors. I can just pray internally. I think I've met a lot of guys who unfortunately feel like they can't pray out loud, or that they're not spiritual enough to pray out loud, and that that's kind of only for this next level of Christian. You know, that's for pastors when they do it on the stage, but that's not for me. I think that's unfortunately a real big misconception. Men should be leading their wives and their family by praying out loud, praying with other men, praying out loud in general is just a beautiful thing.

Jon

Yeah, for most of history, that's the only way people pray. You know, actually the idea of reading and praying quietly in your own mind is actually a relatively modern idea from stuff that I've read. I mean, you know, guys back in the day, you know, John Calvin and those guys, they probably even, everything they read was out loud because people just didn't really pray quietly. You just did it out loud. That was the way to do it. So I think that's actually a pretty new invention that we wouldn't do that.

Mitchell

Yeah. How about this? Where could someone go in Scripture to guide them in prayer?

Jon

Yeah, a few passages we've already talked about. 1 John 5, 1 John 3, James chapter 5 has some prescription about prayer. A couple others I got jotted down here. Mark 11, 24, the Lord's Prayer, of course, Matthew chapter 6, Jesus himself lays out for us how to pray. Now, I always said that the Lord's Prayer is not a—you don't have to recite those exact words whenever you pray. I think you can, but I think more, that's like a template. Those are like the categories to pray through. So that's sometimes what I do in prayer time, is I'll just take the Lord's Prayer, and I'll kind of start with a phrase from the Lord's Prayer, and then work off from it, get into some other specific things going on in my life to pray for that are related to that.

Mitchell

Yeah, a lot of catechisms go off of the Lord's Prayer by dissecting each of those those phrases and expanding on it, so it's a beautiful thing. This has been a great conversation. Thanks everyone for listening. You can always find us wherever you download podcasts. You can always submit questions at peacechurch.cc/questions.

Jon

You can find That's a Good Question at resoundmedia.cc or wherever you listen to podcasts.